Creating a store without subjectivity.

You have been talking about renting an office/store space for quite some time, haven't you? When did the idea of renting a space like an office and store come to your mind?

Great North Japan: Actually, I've been saying that for a long time. Originally, about 20 years ago, I was allowed to run a store at the company I was working for at the time . At that time, I fell in love with art and photography, but I realized that it was difficult to sell such things, and it was difficult to do it at someone else's company, so my feelings toward the store faded away. After that, I started "Vinyl Archive," and there was a period of time when I stayed away from art and photography for a while, but in 2010 or 2011, I met the illustrator Noritake, and that was the first time I asked someone other than myself to do graphics for the shop. At that time , he was still in Utrecht. It had been a long time since I had seen a store with stoic books instead of a major bookstore, and I became more and more interested in it, and I had been saying I wanted to do it ever since. But when it came to actually opening the store, I was still in the process of running the brand at the time, so it was difficult to make it happen. During that time, I did a little bit of periodic store runs, and it seemed that someday, someday, it would become now.

. So that's the story behind the name "Salt and Pepper. Then, what is the origin of the name of the restaurant, "Salt and Pepper"?

Great North Japan. I was just thinking of a name for the shop, and I wanted to make the shop a little more over-the-top, so that people could see the shop from a bird's eye view. I was just thinking of a name for the store, and I wanted to make the store itself as much as possible a place where people can look at it from a more bird's eye view, rather than just putting forth my own subjectivity. Of course, I do what I like to do, but I also want to have sessions with other people. Therefore, I thought it would be interesting to use a name that I would not normally work on, and to incorporate the subjective viewpoints of others, so I chose "salt and pepper" for the name of the restaurant.

. Even the name of the restaurant is not subjective, is it, Mr. Ohkita?

Great North Japan. Yes, that's right. I asked Stefan (Stefan Marx) to do the logo for the store, but I asked him to do it in Stefan's style without being conscious of us, and I also asked someone else to select the zine, but when he lightly suggested the selection, I liked his impression, so there was no need to say more, I like that kind of arrangement. I have a vague idea of where I want to land, and I think that tying up the space between the two will make the store boring. I'm in charge, but I'm not the type of person who has to lead everyone. In conjunction with the current exhibition of Jiro Konami's photographs, "Salt and Pepper" also published a photo book, but we all selected some of the photographs and left it up to the designer. When I published his photo book before, it was published by "Vinyl Archive," so I did most of the photo selection and page layout myself, but I wanted to stop doing that as well. But by the time I opened the shop, I had an idea of where I wanted to land. But there are still many unknowns (laughs).

Standing neither underground nor overground.

When I spoke with you at the end of the year, you mentioned that you did not dare to deal in inline products, which I thought was very interesting and correct in terms of approach. I think it would be more interesting to have a space that is not only about clothes, but also a place where various things can be done.

Great North Japan. I think there are a few. . When I actually open the store and see the customers, I also think that if you put an inline, it will sell. Some people ask me, "Why don't you put inline? I'm sometimes asked if I don't. . For me, it's not that I've decided not to put it up, but I think there are times when I think, "This bag looks like it would fit, so I'll put it up. But I don't want to make too many rules, because I want people to visit as much as possible. Nowadays, everything has to be prepared. I don't know if that's bad or good, or even if it's good. I don't even know if that's a bad thing or a good thing, but I think it would be good to have a store like this. I just don't like stores that don't have enough information. Maybe it's just because I like stores with little information (laughs), but as long as I'm running a business, it's not that I don't want money, nor do I want to do something weird and underground. . If I had the money, I would have wanted to do it in a bigger place, and I am only doing what I can do.

So, what you could do within your current capabilities was to create the current gallery and store? Did your desire to have a gallery space exist alongside your desire to open a store?

Great North Japan. both. To tell you the truth, I'd like to see a cafe space there, too. It is common, but I thought it would be nice to have something like that. When I was trying to make it look as much like me as possible, I couldn't imagine only having an inline store for the "Vinyl Archive". In my mind, the way the clothes look at an exhibition is the "Vinyl Archive" store. Somehow, I felt that it would be boring if that was all.

Do you think there was a part of you that wanted to introduce your favorite artists to the customers of "Vinyl Archive" as well?

Great North JapanI wanted to make it flat. . I wanted to make it flat, without separating it in any weird way. I don't think it's cool to like art because I like it, and I don't like to think that because I know a certain person's work, I should think that because I know that person's work, I should think that. I just want to say "what is good is good," and I wanted to do it in a place I like, the same way I was excited when I saw a solo exhibition or bought a book in a bookstore. I have also always had a blurring of feelings within me, and I don't like the idea of forcing people in the clothing industry to connect with art because art is currently gaining momentum. On the other hand, there are people in the art world who have an aversion to being consumed, but I make things with respect for them and with the feeling that this is not true. Of course, that is not everything, but I wanted to use "salt and pepper" as a place where I could resolve the fact that everything cannot be done without being consumed.

I see.

Great North JapanI used to think, "How can I look different from others? I used to often think about how I could make my work look different from others, but I think that in the end, both clothing and art are meant to be seen by others. So, in the end, what I am conscious of is not so much the style of my work, but rather how much I am able to enhance the degree of perfection within the world of the person who likes it. I feel that the degree of perfection of something to be shown to others somehow reveals one's personality. I feel that this is the best way to create a place that enhances that sense of perfection. As we go forward, I am sure we will have problems with sales and other issues, but I am looking forward to seeing how we can endure that and make it interesting.

Many of the customers who come to "Salt and Pepper" look at the clothes, of course, but they also check out the exhibit and the zine, don't they? I think that is actually a great thing.

Great North Japan. it's a real pleasure to meet customers. . I am glad that my thoughts on clothes and art have become flat. In "Vinyl Archive," textiles are done by "orista," concept messages are done by "Noritake," and visuals and photographs used in the clothes are done by "Jiro Onami, But as we add more and more new people to the brand, the brand itself becomes blurred. . It's strange, but I think pictures and photos have that much power. So, I am a meek person, and there are many artists I am interested in, but I want to express them in a place rather than in a brand. I wanted to draw a clear line between the two.

Create a spontaneous idea under the name "Vinyl Archive.

What kind of items do you plan to offer here?

Great North Japan: The "Vinyl Archive" collection has a beginning and end, like making a book in my mind. But here, I'm going to try to make something under the name of "VINAL ARCHIVE" that I want to try, even though it deviates a little from that. . like a set-up jacket or a trench coat. There is too much of a process to the consumer, and it doesn't really resonate with them, but I would like to put it in the perspective of what I think would be good if it were true. I also want to see it for myself. When I look at various fabrics, I think about giving it a try. I'm also thinking of doing special orders for "Individualized Shirts" and "Stabilizer Jeans," while I'm at it. I have an idea of what colors are typical for this store, so I think it's interesting to see the strength of direction in that respect. But I'm really sorry, but it's still vague. Nothing is really set in stone. I guess I don't want to decide.

. Generally, you decide on everything and then you start moving (laughs).

Great North JapanI think it's a good idea to do something interesting, but you can't think of it that far in advance, can you? It's good to make a T-shirt with a collage of an artist you found in a zine, and suddenly people start asking, "Who is this? It's good to have that kind of thing. If I can enjoy the work and be satisfied with the sense of completion when people see it, then that's fine.

I think that if you try to package your work in a way that you want people to understand it, it becomes boring, even for you.

Great North Japan: Yes, that's right. I don't have to match anyone or drop anything. . It's rather hard to do that kind of thing (laughs). If I had done it in my 30s, I think it would have been different; maybe I could have done it in my 40s.

The story of the store, the brand, and where each is headed.

On the other hand, what do you envision for the future of the "Vinyl Archive"?

Great North JapanI honestly don't think about it too much. Of course, I am looking ahead to the next year or two, but I am not going to do something just to make sales, even though it may be a pretty thing to do. . Because there will inevitably be distortions. I am doing what I am doing because I have decided to live with this brand, but even if things get better or worse in the future, I don't want to break the current pace in order to continue the brand. Of course it is for my own sake, but I don't want to make the customers who have bought my expensive products regret it, and I don't want to let down the people I have worked with so far.

I think it's the same with stores. If it's good, it will fall down somewhere. If I can enjoy that roller coaster ride, then I will continue, and I probably can't do that alone. I consider myself more like an art director than a clothing designer. I ask this person to do this, this fabric store to do that, and I think about the number of pages and put together the design for the brand. Stores, I thought after doing it this time, are a bit different again. I feel like I'm in the best balance right now, being a manager, a designer for the brand, and directing the store as well. . Maybe that's why I said I wouldn't put inline as my main focus. I just thought of that when we were talking (laughs).

At any rate, this is the culmination of your work with the Vinyl Archive, isn't it?

Great North Japan. Yes, that's right. I think we were talking about our dreams with hoppies in our hands, and I think we were able to give shape to them.