Music and Manga, Where is the Future? Keiichi Sogabe & Yoshitomo Yoshimoto | feature

Keiichi Sogabe

Born in 1971, he has been a central figure in Sunny Day Service since the 1990s, and after the band broke up in 2001, he began his career as a solo artist. In 2004, he established his own label, ROSE RECORDS, which releases a variety of items including his own works.

Yoshimoto and Yoshitomo

Born in 1964, he made his debut in 1985 when his four-panel comic "Nikkan Yoshiaki Yoshimoto" was selected for the 1st Asuka Manga School, and in 1986, he worked as an assistant for Kyoko Okazaki's "Second Virgin". Since the publication of the full-length works "Let's Go Bugeicho" and "Tokyo Defense Forces," he has published many highly accomplished short stories, including "Aoi-no-Kuruma" ("Blue Car"). In 2010, he adapted Yu Nagashima's novel "Biting While Chewing" into a manga (included in "Yu Nagashima Manga-ka Keikaku"). His new novel "Ikemen Fisherman" is currently available on NOTE.
note.mu/yoshitomo2018

From "the CITY" to "Ordinary Music".

In 2016, Sunny Day Service released "Dance to You," a collection of gems of pop songs, followed by "Popcorn Ballads" in 2017 and "the CITY" in 2018. The CITY" in 2018, as well as the chaotic yet irresistibly romantic songs of "Popcorn Ballads" in 2017 and "the CITY" in 2018, suddenly took us by surprise with their cutting-edge streaming-only release (later also available in analog). We were also surprised to see Yoshimoto Yoshitomo on the jacket of "the CITY," as the two artists have been sympathetic to each other's creations since the 1990s, and Yoshimoto drew the jacket of Keiichi Sogabe's band "Bireban no Sokaban" in 2009. However, there is an impression that the two are rapidly approaching each other.

First of all, one of the recent topics that connects the two of you is the picture of Yoshimoto and his family on the jacket of Sunny Day Service's "the CITY." How did that come about?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yoshitomo-san's daughter works part-time at this restaurant (CITY COUNTRY CITY, a cafe in Shimokitazawa run by Sogabe-san), so we sometimes see each other, and I have known both Yoshitomo-san and Kayo-san (Yoshimoto-san's wife and filmmaker Kayo Nakamura) for a while, so I wanted to photograph them together. I wanted to be in the picture with them. I also included the engineer's family and the old man at the ramen shop that bassist Tanaka (Takashi) often goes to (laughs). (Laughs) If I had just my friends in the photo, it would have been too close in age and atmosphere, so I wanted to make a group photo with as many different people as possible in it.

Sunny Day Service "the CITY" jacket

A group photo of people who know each other loosely but not that well.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes. So, even though they have never met, they are connected in some way.

I thought it was exactly like The City, or perhaps a photograph that captures the city as it is.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, I think you may be right.

YoshimotoMy family is kind of like a ghost, or the deceptive spirits of mountains and rivers are coming from the mountains (laughs).

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, no.

Looking at this photo without knowing the background, one gets a kind of zany feeling of "I wonder what kind of people are pictured here." It looks like a normal "gathering of relatives," but it also has a disturbing sense of fake relatives gathered at a wedding cherry-picking (laugh).

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I'm not quite sure how I see it now, but from my point of view, it's nothing more or less than a group photo of people I know. It's like a group of people who got together when someone died, for example, "people who might get together when I die.

Oh, when you put it that way, it certainly looks like that kind of photo. By the way, how did Yoshimoto-san make the offer? Was there an explanation of "this kind of concept and this kind of visual"?

YoshimotoI believe they showed you The Band's jacket.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes. There aren't that many group photo jackets, so I would have them look at The Band's jacket and say, "I think this is probably the kind of thing you're talking about in terms of atmosphere.

I see. The appearance of Mr. Yoshimoto on the jacket led to his appearance on Sogabe's TBS Radio program "Ordinary Music," not as a talk guest, but as a guest in charge of music selection, is that correct?

*"Ordinary Music," April 30, 2018, selected by Yoshimoto Yoshitomo.
www.tbsradio.jp/247696

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's right. I usually ask musicians I know to select songs for me, but after seeing you on the cover, I thought, "If I'm going to ask Yoshitomo-san, now would be the time to ask him.

YoshimotoWell, that was a lot of fun to do.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That was not only a song selection, but you also completely created the sound, didn't you?

YoshimotoIn case you are interested, I am giving you the complete packet (laughs). The program is divided into the first half and the second half, and the first half is a mix I made 20 years ago.

I understand that the selection of music for the first half of the film was made as a B.G.M., or soundtrack, for the short film "Raideen," which was released in 1997.

YoshimotoIt's actually 45 minutes long, but I figured if I cut it down the middle, it would fit into the radio length, so I recorded it like a DJ mix on a 90-minute tape, and it's just about halfway down one side of the tape.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Is what was played on the show still the same as what you made then?

YoshimotoBasically, yes. When we dropped it into the computer, the sound level was different for each song, so we adjusted it and delivered it to the client.

The song connections were very smooth, but then, you have been using a mixer since then, haven't you?

YoshimotoI did. Yes, I think it was while I was working on "Raideen," but my wife was working with Mr. Sogabe, and he wrote a song called "Now" for the commercial.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, the chocolate ones.

YoshimotoIt was a 15-second demo on a cassette, and I remember listening to that song while painting "Raideen. I remember hearing it while painting "Raideen. Maybe it's the right time of year.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)97, yes. By the way, do you make a mixtape like that every time you draw a comic?

YoshimotoRecently, though, I've been making playlists on iTunes. But unlike tapes, iTunes has no end, so there is no end to it.

With tapes, there are physical constraints, like 45 or 90 minutes.

YoshimotoYes, it's more interesting with time constraints. It is more interesting if there is a time constraint.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, I knew it. I'm making a Spotify playlist, and I probably have about 20 hours of music right now (laughs). I think it's interesting that there is no limit now, so I'd like to have about 24 hours worth of music to choose from.

And it's possible to create a playlist for the whole day, from morning to night.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's interesting, because you can do that kind of thing, but I heard Yoshitomo's music selection the other day, and I also thought that this kind of compact music selection is important.

at the very leastI actually made another playlist, but when I pulled out the old one and listened to it, I thought it was pretty good.

It was very good.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yeah, it was good. Surprisingly rock and roll. That was rock 'n' roll.

YoshimotoMy roots are in punk/new wave, but I also like a lot of power pop. By the way, yesterday I listened to the Temptations live for the first time in the 60s, and it was really cool. It was like entertainment.

Temptations! That is unexpected.

YoshimotoWell, I listen to basically anything.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Do you keep all your old cassette tapes?

YoshimotoI have a few things from the 80's that I listened to in high school. I also have most of the stuff from the 80s that I listened to in high school. I keep them in a pretty careless way and rarely listen to them again.

Raideen" and "Enoshima," manga and music.

So, Mr. Sogabe was inspired by Yoshimoto's "Raideen" to write the song "Enoshima" (included in the 1999 album "MUGEN"), right?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, that's right.

YoshimotoYeah, I had never heard directly from you that you wrote a song based on my cartoon...

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, really?

YoshimotoI had only heard about it through my wife.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, I see.

YoshimotoNow I finally got confirmation from the person himself (laughs).

It's true, I thought (laughs). By the way, you seem to have a strong affinity with manga. Do you often write songs inspired by manga?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Of course I like manga, but I don't actually have that many "this song was influenced by this manga".

It is not a direct influence, but rather a fragmented input that affects somewhere else.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, I think so. It's only "Raideen". I think it's the only time I've heard a song directly from the manga.

I see. So, how do you feel about this, Yoshimoto-san?

YoshimotoWell, when I hear "Enoshima," I always think, "I've got to get my shit together. You wrote this song for me," I always feel my back stiffen (laughs).

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)When I play that song live, I can see the scenery. It is a really simple song with few notes and words, but I think the scenery is probably from Yoshitomo's manga. I think the strong influence of Yoshitomo's manga is the reason why I can see the scenery so quickly.

I have the impression that Sunny Day's fan base and Yoshimoto's fan base are quite similar.

at the very leastWell, I haven't been drawing comics at all lately, so I feel like it's only a few people who know me, but Sunny Day is creating a new fan base more and more...

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)But I think there is a lot of overlap.

I feel that "Enoshima" was born from "Raideen" in 1997, and 20 years later, in 2018, it is a major topic in the history of culture since the 90s to have Mr. Yoshimoto on Sunny Day's album cover and in charge of selecting songs for Mr. Sogabe's radio show, Did you get a lot of reactions after the broadcast?

YoshimotoThe broadcast started at 4:00 in the morning, but I did my best to stay awake and check Twitter in real time (laughs). I was relieved to see that the show was quite well received.

As a later note, the fact that Mr. Yoshimoto picked up on the music selection led to Hi, how are you? and Shunichiro Yokozawa doing an in-store live performance at Coconut Disc's Kichijoji store. It should be noted that the aftermath of "Ordinary Music" selected by Mr. Yoshimoto has definitely produced something. The circumstances surrounding the event areCoconut Disc Kichijoji Store BlogIt is noted in the

When you draw manga, you even create your own soundtracks, so you are often inspired by music when you draw manga, aren't you?

YoshimotoYeah, I'm not sure what it is. There is something fuzzy in my head at the beginning, something that is there, but the shape is not clear. In order to define it, I pull out various kinds of music and try them out, thinking, "I wonder if I can get into this. Then, when I hear new music, music that I have never heard before, it may appear later in some form. It's a bit of both.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)So you are saying that you are going to take that initial fuzziness and replace it with sound?

YoshimotoIf you think theoretically, you will end up going in a strange direction, so it is important to have something more intuitive, something that you can feel on your skin. It is better to describe or define it with music.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)So that is what that "Raideen" playlist is all about.

YoshimotoYes, it is. I also have Steely Dan and Grover Washington, Jr. in the second half of the tape.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)It's mellow. It doesn't feel directly related to the image of "Raideen" in the manga, does it?

YoshimotoYou see the present of the characters who became fathers in that comic book. You wanted it to be an image of that side.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Oh, I see. So that's how you drew that cartoon.

Long-awaited new plot.

For you, Yoshimoto, I guess you mean that you sometimes need music to give some direction to a vague image you have in your mind.

YoshimotoYes, it is. That's still there when you listen to Sunny Day's new album "the CITY".

Do you get any ideas for cartoons when you listen to them?

YoshimotoLet's see, there is a story that I thought of two years ago, and I actually brought it today (he said and took out a piece of paper with a plot written on it from his tote bag) I wrote it in June 2016, and I'll let Sogabe-san read it to you for a bit.

(Mr. Sogabe, reading silently for a moment)

YoshimotoThis kind of story came up with a bang. It was right around the time Sunny Day's "Dance to You" came out, and my wife was going to shoot the music video for "Punch Drunk Love Song," which is included in the album, and she took the title of this plot. So, that music video (in which Nijiro Murakami plays a young fisherman) is actually based on this one (laughs). (Laughs.) So, I decided to draw this story, and I approached a certain editorial department, but they said, "I don't understand what you mean by this," and the story was lost.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Eek, so that's how it is.

YoshimotoI have. I wondered why they didn't understand, and I felt disappointed. That made me lose a lot of motivation.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)...This is interesting. It feels very current. Please draw it.

YoshimotoWhen I read it back over time, there are times when I think, "Oh no, that's not good enough," but it's still alive. When I heard "the CITY," I really got into the plot. I thought, "Oh, this is the same thing. Then I thought, "This could work.

After listening to "the CITY," I felt a renewed push.

YoshimotoYes, there was. There was.

What do you mean by the same thing as "the CITY" in a more specific way?

YoshimotoIt's like the evil spirits of mountains and rivers (laughs).

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I know what you mean. There are a lot of fragments scattered around, or rather, I feel like there are a lot of fragments of news that I have learned through social networking sites and that are buried day by day in this story. It's as if the world I live in is made up of these things. It's not just that, but there is an atmosphere of the present that makes you feel as if your mind is constructed with such things.

YoshimotoHowever, I have a hunch that the editors would not like it if I submit something like this.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)A very realistic story. But there is no gravity or weight to it. I think that's what I like about it.

I'm not denying or affirming, I'm describing what seems to be real, but I wonder if the editor will overreact to certain motifs.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Maybe you think there is no obvious emotion in the story, no "crying" or something, I don't know.

I see. You said that you can't simply put it down to the emotion of "crying" or "laughing".

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Like, "It all makes sense."

YoshimotoYes, yes. The CITY" has exactly that kind of feeling.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Indeed. But that's how music works, but stories, like pure literature, are difficult to tell nowadays, so it's not so easy. Even for manga.

And in both movies and novels, a hit is something that makes you cry or laugh.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Is that what is being sought?

YoshimotoI think there is a need for something that is easy to understand.

So the publishers are not going to put "unfamiliar things" out into the world as unfamiliar things, right?

YoshimotoThat's right. Then, I would do DIY, draw the pictures on my own, and put them out into the world. I don't have the energy to do that.

You don't have any? (Laughter).

YoshimotoI really have to learn from Mr. Sogabe in that area (laughs).

Streaming and social networking methods.

Since launching his own label, Mr. Sogabe has been both a creator and distributor of music, and he is experimenting with a cutting-edge release method for "Popcorn Ballads" and "the CITY" by streaming all the songs. In addition, "the SEA," an ongoing Spotify playlist of remixes of "the CITY" by other artists who have deconstructed and reconstructed the material, is currently being released. The SEA" playlist is currently being released on Spotify. The method of uploading a series of remixes in the form of real-time updates and sharing is also groundbreaking, starting with the poignant "Fuck You Ondo," a remix or cover of "Love Song 2" from "the CITY. What you are doing now, Mr. Sogabe, is a style of creating and releasing music without permission, and even if it is not completed, the process is also made public, isn't it?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's right. Since I created my own label, I have been able to create and release my own music as I please, but it was not until "Popcorn Ballads" that I decided that I did not even need a CD package.

This was largely inspired by the methods of foreign artists such as Frank Ocean and Chance the Rapper.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Well, such a medium has been created and people are using it, and I think this is a good and interesting method.

In Japan, there are still very few artists who are releasing their works using a method like Mr. Sogabe's.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I guess I feel that the number is gradually increasing.

With major record companies, I think that things are still often done according to a big plan: when to make an album, when to promote it, when to tour, and so on.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)The major ones do.

This is probably similar to the world of manga published by major publishers, and I think that many artists and writers face similar problems. I think the root of this problem lies in the fact that artists tend to focus only on "what sells," "what will sell," and "what has sold well in the past." However, I have the impression that you are quite free from such a system and publish what you want to publish when you want to publish.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Music doesn't need a form if I say it doesn't need a form, because I just listen to it. Books and paintings are objects, so perhaps they cannot be so free.

Mr. Yoshimoto, you are trying to get a plot that the editor said, "I don't understand, this," out into the world in some form, aren't you?

YoshimotoI'm thinking about it a lot right now, but if I try to draw this as a comic, it will probably take me about six months. What I am afraid of is that the situation will change drastically during that six months.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)You mean the social situation?

So, it would be better to release the product to the world without much time.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)But I think this story is okay. I think a year or two in social conditions won't spoil the kind of reality that exists here.

YoshimotoThat's right. There was a story that I had already drawn, but I voluntarily decided to drop it. When I read it again after some time had passed, I felt that it was not the right one.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Where does that happen?

YoshimotoAt first, I was thinking superficially and focusing on things that were happening in the real world, but then I realized that this would become outdated over time, and that my position would change over time.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Takashi Imashiro, for example, deals with such social situations with gusto.

YoshimotoI have thought about doing something direct like that.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)So there is. That's surprising.

YoshimotoBut that would lose its effectiveness over time, I thought.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I see. The plot that I just read to you is a story of anxiety and fear, a kind of horror, and a sense of relief and ease at the same time.

YoshimotoYes, that's right. Loneliness is the basic idea, but when I heard "the CITY", I felt a mixture of various kinds of loneliness at first.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)It's kind of a mishmash of songs from different periods of time, so maybe that's why it has that feel.

YoshimotoYou mean, as a result of that?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)As a result, that's what happened. About half of the album is a collection of songs that were left off or didn't make it on each album. So it doesn't feel like I built the story from beginning to end, which is rather refreshing.

YoshimotoIn analog terms, sides A, B, and C felt like the first time I read a Raymond Carver short story. Like it was thrown out and left as is.

I see. It is a collection of disparate stories, but there is something that flows consistently at the bottom.

YoshimotoYes, it is. I wonder if that is what Sunny Day is all about. Something that is at the core.

If it takes six months to draw the plot created by Mr. Yoshimoto in manga form, would you spend six months to draw it as a manga, or would you entrust it to someone else to draw it, or in another form?

YoshimotoThat's right. In fact, since the beginning of the 2000s, I have been working on joint productions with various people. Yu Nagashima's novels have been adapted into manga by me, and my original stories have been adapted into manga by Seiko Kemurasawa and Iwo Kuroda. We have been talking about putting them all together in a book-like format for some time now, but we haven't been able to come up with a good way to do it. So I was thinking about how we could put it all together in a joint work, or something that is not a manga, such as a novel or a screenplay, which in my case I have written a few times. I'm thinking that I could make this story quicker if it were in the form of a novel, or something like that.

We could call that out on social networking sites.

YoshimotoI guess it is like "the SEA" remix made after Sunny Day's "the CITY". I wonder if what Mr. Sogabe is doing now can be used as a reference in this area. I feel that if I put it out in a solid form, it would be buried. If you draw it as a manga and publish it, it may become a topic of conversation for a while, but I feel that it will soon fade away.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I think the video is good.

For example, it might be possible to produce several serials of 30 minutes per episode as late-night dramas or online dramas.

YoshimotoWhen I visited cartoonist Yamada Nenai's private exhibition a while ago, we talked about cartoons, and Yamada-san said that it would be interesting if we all put out a story in the form of a script, not a cartoon, and then boil or grill it and eat it as we like.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Heh, interesting.

Completion and speed.

I guess it's that I come up with story after story, but it's physically difficult to turn them into comic strips.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)So you are exploring the meaning of putting it into a comic book?

YoshimotoSimply in my case, the first thing is that it is physically hard for me.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I understand, that. I wish someone else would do this idea (laughs).

YoshimotoSo, I think about which is more important: to put the work into manga form or to speed up the process and get it out immediately.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Perhaps speed is more important nowadays.

YoshimotoThat's right. That is why I thought it would be better to keep coming up with ideas as they come to me.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Nowadays, the number of artists who say, "This is my first new album in ten years" is gradually decreasing, or rather, it is not so noticeable anymore. In the past, people would talk about Radiohead's first release in years, but nowadays, no one cares about the album format itself, and it is more immediate and immediate to hear that someone has released a new song with a new music video on YouTube. I guess it's more immediate. It doesn't really matter that they took the time to carefully create a masterpiece.

Does this mean that speed is more important than perfection?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)For example, in order to increase the degree of perfection, it is now becoming more and more common to speed up the process by dividing the labor, not by manpower, but by creating a single song with a very talented staff by saying, "Yes, who should make the drum track?

Are you saying that you are concentrating your talent and cost on one song at a time?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes. We are back to the way rock 'n' roll was made in the 50s and 60s, where each song is a battle. There is a big difference between the artists behind the scenes and the ones on the front. Now there are no jackets, so you don't know who the engineer is or who the producer is, and it probably has little to do with who the artist is. We are once again in the era of mainstream singles.

That's like the days when the Temptations and others were releasing singles one after another.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, yes. The songs are getting shorter and shorter. I like that kind of thing (laughs). But I wonder what would happen if we were to translate that into the world of comic books. Well, it's not impossible to divide the labor.

There has always been a division of labor: those who create the story, those who draw the pictures, and those who paint the background.

YoshimotoI don't know how to put it. I think it's all wrapped up in the word "manga. For example, what appears in Jump magazine is manga, and what I draw is also manga. I don't think that my manga is special in any way, but I feel that I have to be in a different place from the mainstream. To begin with, I myself don't read manga. Only a very limited number of people in the present tense read them. The rest of the time, I buy old comics at used bookstores and read them.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Who do you read, for example?

YoshimotoLeiji Matsumoto's Shijo Hanmono, for example, is very good.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yeah, it's a little erotic (laughs). As for new manga, do you read them in the sense of research, "Is this kind of thing popular now?

YoshimotoI am interested in a hit or two, but when I see the picture, I think, "Oh, that's okay" (laughs). (Laughs.) The way the frames are cut or the composition doesn't feel right to me at all.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I see.

YoshimotoI look through the magazines that are sent to me, but just looking at them is very tiring. For example, in the old "Kamui Den," Kamui dodges flying shurikens while rolling back and forth, and then the shurikens are stuck in the trees, all in a single frame. It looks like animation in a single frame. In today's manga, each movement is expressed frame by frame, which is tiring to watch.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Mr. Sanpei Shirado certainly does. It is amazing, isn't it?

Do you feel that you are digging up past manga to find a picture that feels right for you?

YoshimotoI find more discoveries that way. Even in the case of music, when I listen to something old, I often find it refreshing. Of course, there are people who draw interesting manga, but that does not mean that all new manga are bad.

I understand that you listen to quite a bit of new music, but is it the kind of listening where there might be a hint of something there?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I wouldn't go so far as to call it a hint. But I do listen to a lot of new stuff. New music is better. With manga, it is true that new is not equal to good, but with music, I feel that new things have meaning as new things.

How to create and deliver?

For example, in the field of manga, the old publishing system of starting with a magazine series and then publishing a comic book series to generate revenue is breaking down, and the tendency to focus on settings and stories that are likely to sell well in the film industry has led to the neglect of authorship and originality. In contrast, there have been cases where individual authors have published their works on Twitter and other social media, which have been picked up by influencers, published in book form, and led to hits. Kaoru Fukaya's "Yomawari Neko" is a successful example of this, but if you can draw and publish your work on your own, it would seem that you can create without an editor. Is it better to have an editor?

YoshimotoI know there are people who do it alone, but I think it's hard work. It's important to have someone to judge.

In the case of music, especially with your method, there is no one to act as an editor, is there?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I don't have one. I just ask the manager, "What do you think of this? I feel that manga artists are basically a set with their editors, and I envy them a lot. In the case of manga, there is an image of the editor nurturing the young manga artist. In the case of music, there are directors who work in the sense of producers to "make it sell," but I don't think they can be that involved in the work itself. If a song has already been created, there is not much you can do to change it.

A little rearrangement, that's about it.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, that's right. In my case, I just publish what I think is good, but I think it would be nice to have someone like an editor. A third party to judge.

On the other hand, you don't like it when people like that are around because they give you all kinds of opinions?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I guess it depends on how accurate their judging is, but when it comes to something like preferences, I might not like it. I feel that manga editors are professionals who judge accurately. By the way, in the case of manga, do you first show the plot stage to the editor?

YoshimotoYes, that's right. We start by saying, "I'm thinking of doing something like this.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)It's a story, a comic book is a story. In the case of music, when you first listen to a fragment of a song, you might think, "What? I think that's how it is with music. For example, just the sound of a snare (laughs). In the case of manga, it would be easier to discuss the plot in front of the audience and ask "what do you think about this story" in concrete terms, but in the case of music, if you just give them fragments, they will just say "I don't understand that.

If a song is not completed from beginning to end, it is difficult to understand its merits.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's right. Once a song is completed, I play it to people to see what their reactions are. But an interesting manga is interesting at the time of plotting.

YoshimotoYes, it has to be interesting.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's what I mean. When I make a music video, the director sometimes gives me a few lines of a plot, and if it is interesting, it is interesting at the point of about five lines of the story. There is something powerful about it.

Do you mean that you can see the images in some concrete way?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Even if you can't see the images at that point, there is something powerful about it. I felt something like that in Yoshitomo's plot, too.

YoshimotoI'd like to get it out there somehow. Specifically, I am thinking of publishing this in the form of a novel, for now.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Doesn't it take more energy to write a novel?

YoshimotoIt's kind of like a rap freestyle (laughs). It's like a rap freestyle (laughs).

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I see.

YoshimotoI think it would be better to just throw it out there and then think about whether or not to make it into a picture.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That may indeed be true.

YoshimotoHowever, I still want to publish the manga as well, so of course I have the feeling that I should go ahead with that and publish it properly at the appropriate time.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)But as you get older, it does get tedious to put them into practice, doesn't it? I come up with dozens of ideas every night, but it's all such a hassle when I think about bringing them to fruition (laughs). (laughs) But there are so many things I would like to do if I had the money and manpower. When I look at Takashi Murakami, for example, I think he is great because he does it right. I think that energy is important.

Where does that energy come from? Assuming that with age comes a decline in stamina and concentration.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Well, since both Yoshitomo and I are basically doing things on our own, the idea of gathering a staff of about a hundred people is a daunting prospect. So, I would immediately think, "If I had this many people, studio facilities, and money, I could do this many things. When I watch Hollywood movies, such as Marvel, I think it's great. Ideas are born out of a huge system, and this is different from the way we, as individuals, give shape to our feelings in our daily lives. I think it is more anonymous.

Possibilities for collaboration.

Going back to "the CITY" and "the SEA," how did you come up with the idea of entrusting your work to someone else to deconstruct and reconstruct it?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)We had originally planned to have someone else mess up what we had made and then release it. But that would take a lot of time, so we decided that since we had something we had made perfectly, we would release it first and then work on it later.

Sunny Day Service "the SEA" jacket

There are many people in the jacket of "the CITY", but in "the SEA", there are only children, which is also disturbing. It is like Kazuo Umezu's "Drifting Classroom". At the same time, I feel a slight sense of hope that these children will create the future.

YoshimotoI think that was a very symbolic jacket.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I made it in the image of science fiction, where all the adults die and only the children arrive at the beach under a cloudy sky....

For "the SEA," did you offer remixes to each person in a kind of editorial arrangement, like "this song for this person"?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes.

Once you entrusted your work to others to tinker with or reconstruct it, did you mean to take the next step by once again zeroing in on the history and time that had been built up to that point?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I am not thinking about the next step, but I am not satisfied with what I have created, and even if I create something that says, "This is what I have created," that is all there is to it. In the end, that's all there is to it. I think it's boring if that's all there is.

When you make everything yourself, it becomes something you "know" from one to another, but do you feel like you want it to be something you "don't know" once more?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That's part of it, and I also wondered what it meant just because something like my own personality appeared in a song. People say, "This is good," "This is not good," or "This is normal," but I'm not really sure what they are saying based on. So I wanted to try an experiment, or rather, I thought it would be better if someone other than myself did it. I guess I felt that what I was doing was boring.

I see. Mr. Yoshimoto once said that he was tired of his own paintings, but perhaps it is something similar.

YoshimotoYes, it is.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)That is also how Yoshitomo-san collaborates with someone else.

YoshimotoYes, it is. I think it is better to have something foreign intervene once, or it is more interesting to leave the money with someone and have it returned in an unexpected way. There is a thrill to it.

Do you mean that when you have built up your career to a certain degree, you go into that mode at some point?

YoshimotoAround the beginning of the 2000s, I began to feel that drawing in the form of a comic book was a bit uninteresting. So I started to try a completely different format, or to leave the drawing to others. I think it means that I am not interested in something that can be done within my range or something that is predictable.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I guess so. In my case, I have always left some things to others. I think that I have left things to others within the range of my originality, but now I am thinking about how far I can deviate from that range. I'm thinking, "What exactly is originality? I think it would be fine to leave everything to others and just use the name Keiichi Sogabe. I think that might be a better way to expand the scope of the project. In the end, I just want the finished product to be enjoyable and good. What is important to me is what is exciting and thrilling. If I just say, "I worked so hard to create such and such a work," then....

Well, I know there are a lot of people who want that.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)But when I look at it as a customer, I just say, "Oh, I see" (laughs). (Laughs.) If I were a listener, I would think that. I think that's why I'm doing so many things now. I think that's why I am doing various things now.

YoshimotoWhen I first heard "DANCE TO YOU" I thought, "It's huge.

By "big," do you mean large in scale?

YoshimotoNo, it's huge anyway. As music. Then I listened to "Popcorn Ballads" and found that it had become even bigger.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)In my mind, "Dance to You" is just a part of something bigger. Maybe that's why it feels so big. There are only a small number of songs, but it feels like the tip of the iceberg of something huge. This feeling of "something big" may continue for a while longer.

YoshimotoThere was something about it that was different and more expansive than the image of Sunny Day Service that I was tracing. I thought, "This is a little different from the past.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, I do. I feel like I have gone to a different place. Maybe that's why I feel so strange now when I play my old songs live or something.

YoshimotoI went to the Sunny Day concert in March, and the new songs were really good.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Basically, we have been playing only songs from the past two or three years since "DANCE TO YOU".

Do you feel that something new and big that started with "DANCE TO YOU" is still going on today?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)The feeling, the way of making things is changing from what it was before.

Do you find that as the method of presentation changes, the work itself also changes?

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Of course, I think that is part of it, but from the 90's until "DANCE TO YOU" I expressed myself more as a personal novelist, or in a "selfish" way. But now, I feel that I just want to entertain. I have changed my mind to say that I am happy if people enjoy the show. So, going back to my own personal diary, it is kind of embarrassing (laughs). I don't have a clear boundary, so there are times when I can smoothly go back to the songs I used to make, but now I feel like, "If it's entertaining, why not just do whatever I want? But now I feel like, "If it's entertainment, it doesn't matter what it is. I am not interested in expressing my own personal style at all now.

I see.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes. As long as it's entertaining. As long as it's a "good script," I'm fine with anything.

By the way, Yoshimoto-san, if you wrote a novel and another manga artist drew it based on it, would you still be able to accept it? Wouldn't it be like, "I should have drawn it myself after all?

YoshimotoWell, I don't know. But I decided to get it out first, without thinking that far ahead.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Yes, it was very current. This story seemed very current to me.

YoshimotoSomething tells me that the roots haven't changed at all from 2016 when I wrote this. If you skim the surface, there is a discrepancy, but the root of the matter has not changed at all.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Are you aware that you are sounding an alarm about the political and social situation of today?

YoshimotoOh, I don't think it's like that. I think it's more like, "I want to get a grasp of what's going on in the world. I've been saying to myself, "What the hell is going on? and "Why is this happening? When I look at the current political situation, I think, "The government is lying! But if we don't get down to the root of what is going on, to the point where there is something lurking inside ordinary people, it is difficult to see the essence of the situation. If we can get down to the essence of the matter, I think it will not lose its potency over time. I think that is the most accurate way to find out the true nature of something that is unknown.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)I would love to read that in your manga, though (lol).

YoshimotoYeah, I'm sure it will. If I made it into a comic book, it would be different. If I were to draw it myself, it might be more like a comedy.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Indeed. I wonder what would happen to those parts if someone else painted them.

Then you still have to paint it yourself.

great (i.e. great-grandson, great-grandmother)Please do (laughs).

Sunny Day Service "Graduation
Director: Naoyuki Miura (Rollo), Soji Matsumoto (Enjoy Music Club)