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Hisao Saito, a leading figure in the men's fashion world, has been active as a designer of his own brand "TUBE" and has directed major select stores and long-established brands. His bookshelf is worthy of the name "a living dictionary of the fashion industry," with archives covering not only men's fashion from the 1960s to the present day, but also music and culture.

True fashion that was burned into my eyes through Western books.

-I was asked to participate in the project "A peek into your personality through your bookshelf".

SaitoI think it was around 1963 when the only Japanese magazines that carried articles on fashion were "Dansen Senka" and "Eiga no Tomo," and "MEN'S CLUB" did not leave much of an impression on me. Not only magazines, but also other things made in Japan at that time were just not that appealing to me. Nowadays, foreign brands are imitating Japanese clothes, but in the past, the quality of Japanese clothes was not as good as we thought. There used to be an American magazine called "Men's Wear. I think it has ceased publication now, but as of 1965, it was already a long-established magazine that had been running for 75 years. At the time, "VAN" was popular among the Miyuki tribe and others, and we were buying "VAN" at first, but when we looked at "Men's Wear," we thought, "There's a teacher from "VAN" in the magazine. That's how I grew up looking at Western books, so for me, books are something to look at.

-Those were the days before men's fashion had taken root in Japan. I can't imagine that at all.

SaitoThe year 1965 was just the time when "menswear" became "men's fashion" and the term "men's fashion" was born around 1965 when movie stars and rock stars came out in droves. Until around 1965, when movie stars and rock stars came out in droves and the term "men's fashion" was born, "fashion" was a women's word. In that sense, it was only natural that "Men's Wear" magazine ceased publication. However, through these foreign books, I came to realize that "Japanese clothing was an imitation of American clothes," and I started going to Ameyoko in Ueno and Yokohama to buy American clothes.

-Western books were the catalyst that awakened you to the deeper aspects of the world of clothing. Are most of the books that line your bookshelves now material for making clothes?

SaitoI also have a lot of material. I also have a lot of photo books: photo books of live music concerts in the 60s and 70s have interesting people in them, and famous photographers grew up in that era. It is extremely difficult to read all the text in Western books, so I just let the photos burn in my eyes. I learn by watching. That's why I still don't read a lot of printed matter. Strange to say, I have not read many literary books (laughs). (Laughs) The other books I read are books about musicians I like.

-When I look at the variations on the bookshelf, I get the feeling that the "60s" is one of the basics for Saito-san.

SaitoYes, the war ended in 1945, and from the end of the 1950s, people like James Dean began to express youth who rebelled against adults, and this was the birth of youth culture. Until then, young people were supposed to go to school and study diligently, but in the 1960s, youth culture exploded, and the adults could no longer contain it. The sixties were exciting as men's fashion was born and rock stars were born one after another.

How did you spend your time after that?

SaitoI used to go to Europe a lot in the 70's. I used to walk the streets of London and see a lot of punk kids and skinheads. In London, there were many punk kids and skinheads when I walked the streets. When I happened to be in London at the time, I was invited to go to the opening of "SEDITIONARIES" because "Vivienne Westwood's new store was opening. I could go to Italy and get a suit that looked like the pinnacle of sartoria. It was an interesting time when many things were beginning to happen. When I went abroad in this way, I found new and interesting magazines and brought them back to Japan, but there was a time lag of about five years between Japan and abroad at that time.

-In Saito's case, there was no time lag in information because he had visited the area and absorbed information from a variety of books.

SaitoYes. However, although some people like Takeo Kikuchi (founder of TAKEO KIKUCHI) and Rei Kawakubo (founder of Comme des Garçons) who had been going abroad frequently since that time could see the interest, it was not very effective because it did not reach general magazines or the market. So, it was not very effective. Another turning point came around 1975. The first issue of "CHEAP CHIC" was published in 1975, and the first issue of "POPEYE" was published in 1976. This was a major turning point for Japan, and it was a big shock to me that I could be fashionable without having to buy expensive clothes. However, I was already devoted to Italy and wearing sartorial suits at that time. Around the same time, VOGUE UOMO was launched in Italy, and brands such as Giorgio Armani and Versace began to appear. When you look at it this way, there is always a major movement that comes along once every few decades.

I imagined that there would be a lot of trad-related materials before I visited, but when I actually looked at the bookshelves, I found not only books on trad and clothing, but also punk photo books from the 70s, the first issue of "iD" magazine from the 80s, and even the latest CD albums, There is a lot of variation.

SaitoThere are actually not many interesting books on trad. In Japan, trad has grown to a tremendous size and has become popular due to the influence of "Van," but it's not a genre that changes, so it's not very interesting. It is true that there are a wide variety of book genres when you put them in a row like this. I really need to categorize them by age and genre, but before I knew it, they had become a mess. I'm running out of space, and magazines are piling up on top of the bookshelf, so I try not to buy them, but I still buy them occasionally and worry about what I should do with them.

-When I see and hear about the bookshelves of various people, it seems to me that there are two types of people: those who put books on the bookshelf and they are finished, and those who frequently take books off the bookshelf and read them. In Saito-san's case, he usually takes books out and reads them, so he seems to know what books are where even if they are not categorized.

SaitoI spend Saturdays here listening to records and looking at books, so I generally know where to find what I'm looking for. My friend took me to a karaoke bar near his house in Yokohama and said, "Saito-san, I'll show you something interesting," and he knew where all the laser discs were when I told him the song titles. It's something similar to that (laughs). Sometimes when I look at the bookshelf, I wonder where that book is, and sometimes I think, "There should be a 300,000 yen signed Bruce Weber photo book around there, but I can't get it out" (laughs).

-What is your tendency to buy books?

SaitoFirst of all, the cover. For example, I saw a photo book of a country and western concert and said, "I want to make the western shirt that the guy on the cover is wearing. Who would buy such a thing? I'm not interested in whether it's the work of an authoritative photographer or not, or what the concept is. I like it just the way it is, just the way I see it. I don't like "make the image like this."

-I think the words and bookshelf are so compelling because I have actually seen the cutting-edge scene of the time, from the 60's to the present day, in real time. I envy you, because in our generation, we can only relive those days through magazines and stories.