The second career theory that domestic skaters are interested in.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Soichiro was already known abroad at that time. What do you think is the charm of yourself?

island in a pond or riverMy fascination? I used to skateboard at various skate spots like Pier Seven*10 and Third and Army*11 every day, but again, I wonder what it is... I did go to shoot with Pete Thompson and others, though.

plainTakuji didn't introduce you to many other people, but you just naturally developed your own skateboarding skills. I guess I became friends with them while visiting local skate spots.

island in a pond or riverThat's right. When I met skaters at spots, I couldn't even speak English, so I would just say "yes" to whatever they said.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)That's nice (laughs).

island in a pond or riverI spent about a month and a half shooting almost every day with a photographer who became almost my exclusive photographer.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)How many years is that?

island in a pond or riverAround 2000 or so.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)I see. On the other hand, Kenji was working for an agency at the same time, right?

island in a pond or riverHuh? Come to think of it, wasn't the company that Kenji was with at the time doing "STEREO"?

TanakaAt that time, there were many agencies that handled "STEREO. Hayashi Trading*12 and Advance*13. It was the company policy of DLX at that time to have many distributors handle a single brand.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)If so, were you able to see Soichiro's presence from that time?

TanakaOf course. And I watched "411VM." You talked lightly about it in the welcome part of the video, didn't you?

plainIn English?

island in a pond or riverIt was a simple self-introduction, not even English, just a list of words like Lego blocks (laughs).

plainStill, it's amazing, isn't it? By the way, what was Kenji doing before he joined "Advanced"?

TanakaI was a regular college student, right? No one would think I was a college graduate because of my name, but I was serious about my studies. I studied hard during my college years, but I spent most of my free time skateboarding and didn't do any job hunting. Just as I was vaguely thinking about what I was going to do after graduation, I went to visit Active Collection, which was mentioned earlier.

At that time, various distributor companies were displaying products of foreign skate brands, and for the first time I became aware of the distribution and structure of skate brands. Until then, I had taken it for granted that skateboard items were available at skate stores, but that was the moment when my view of things changed.

plainIt's hard to understand that kind of behind-the-scenes stuff at first, isn't it?

TanakaI saw many of my favorite brands at the booth of "ADVANCE" at that time, and for the first time, I thought that I would like to work there. I asked them directly, "Let me work for you! I asked him directly. I was told that there were no openings at that time, so I reluctantly gave up, but a while later, I was surfing the Internet and found a job opening on the Advance website, so I immediately called. I called them up and said, "I used to go to Active Collection a lot! I used to go to Active Collection before!

island in a pond or riverYou didn't have to go out of your way to say that (laughs).

TanakaI went there for an interview, but the president was not available and asked me to come back another day. I was thinking, "This is a terrible company," but I made another appointment to see them, and I was able to get the job.

island in a pond or riverMaybe they were being tested.

TanakaThe president of ADVANCE is not that kind of person, so I guess I simply forgot about it. After a couple of years or so, I was assigned to other jobs.

plainIs English a fluke?

TanakaIt's not that I studied English, but I have always loved reading skateboarding magazines. I used to read "THRASHER MAGAZINE" and other skateboarding magazines, and I naturally became able to speak English by reading them with a dictionary.

plainThat's great. But I can understand that a little. I used to love looking at the black-and-white gossip pages at the end of THRASHER MAGAZINE.

TanakaLike skating videos, magazines are surprisingly informative.

plainThere are so many words that you would never encounter in everyday life. For example, "GNARLY" *14. At the time, I wondered what "GNARLY" meant. I always wondered what "GNARLY" was at the time, but all the international skaters around me were using it.

TanakaThe literal translation means something like bumpy. When skaters use it, it's slang, and it's a compliment.

plainIf I wasn't skateboarding, it would be the first word I'd never come across.

TanakaAnd then there's "SICK "*15. It is usually translated as "sick," but since skaters started using it, it has come to mean "bad.

plainIs it a way of derivation, like morbidly dangerous? Come to think of it, there used to be a skate video titled "SICK BOYS "*16.

TanakaYes, I think so.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Yeah, yeah, yeah. To summarize the story in my own way, Active Collection at that time had a positive influence on real skaters.

TanakaIt was in Malu, and it was an active collection, too. That was a little over 20 years ago now.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)That's right. It is also a good story that students who would normally look for a part-time job based on how much they are paid per hour or where they work, had the pure desire to work here because they love it.

TanakaThere are many skaters and friends that I have become friends with through the Active Collection now that I think about it.

island in a pond or riverBack then, there were no social networking services like there are now, and the Internet was not as developed as it is today, so we had no choice but to go to the field.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)What experiences from those days do you use in your work now?

TanakaThe friendships I mentioned earlier are extremely important in the skateboarding community, and even after I started my own distributor, my friends often connect me with skaters and skate brands who are looking for distributors. That's probably the only way to do it. That's why I'm a distributor, but in my case, I don't have to look for brands on my own. I'm lucky (laughs).

plainBut that is because of Kenji's personality, and his personal virtues. For example, when professional skaters or skate teams from the U.S. come to Japan for a Japan tour, they are attended by an agent, right? I have been there many times, and usually all the agencies treat them with excessive condescension, as if they were a tumor, right? In a good sense, I think it was also significant that Kenji did not have such a sense of distance.

TanakaI get angry easily (laughs). (Laughs.) We would drink together, make a lot of noise, and get into fights and even punch each other. But the next day, everyone had forgotten about it.

plainI guess that groove appealed to him.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Kenji-kun is strange, he has a lot of bullshit in him, but he also likes to be beautiful, likes photography, and has an arty sense of beauty. Maybe it's a gap.

TanakaI don't remember who said it, but he said, "Jake Phelps *17 is the person who loves skateboarding the most in the world. He never made any great achievements as a skateboarder, but now he is the editor-in-chief of "THRASHER MAGAZINE".

kozawa (Clausena lansium)You were originally the warehouseman for THRASHER MAGAZINE.

TanakaOh yeah. One day, Jake Phelps, who was neither a professional skater nor a pro skater, got pissed off with the pages of THRASHER MAGAZINE and tore them up right in front of Kevin. Kevin was amused and said, 'Then you do it,' and Jake became the editor-in-chief.

I feel that the passing of Jake, who was also my guiding light, marks the end of an era.

plainYes, it is.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)THRASHER MAGAZINE" has persevered as a print media, but other major skateboard media are all withdrawing from the print media business. What will happen to print media in the future is something that concerns me, who likes paper magazines, and Taro, who has dared to print film photos on paper to make them have value. Should we adapt to the trends of the times or should we change?

plainThat's a tough one.

TanakaBut I think magazines will remain, and not only in the skateboarding industry. If the only purpose of magazines is to sell products, then "Amazon" will be enough from now on.
For example, a skate store functions more as a cultural facility than a store. For example, a skate shop can give lectures to customers who want to start skateboarding, or give them information about the city that they know because they are locals. Such things can only be done in a real store, and it is because of the cultural aspect of the store. So if magazines have that role, they will never disappear.

island in a pond or riverActually, before I got injured, when I was about 28 years old, I thought I would like to change my environment once I turned 30, and I had been vaguely thinking of trying my own skate brand.

This was triggered by the fact that the brand company that was supporting us at the time was a large company, and it was difficult for us riders to communicate with the employees of the sponsor company. So starting the brand was a solution to that conflict.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)How is it to actually run a business? Isn't it hard?

island in a pond or riverIt was difficult at first, because I had to do everything by myself from scratch.

plainAt that age of 30, oddly enough, you could have changed careers outside of the skateboarding industry, but is there a reason why you chose the skateboarding path again?

island in a pond or riverFrom junior high school until that time, I had only skateboarded, and I had never had a job other than skateboarding, so I never thought about anything else.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Is that the same for Kenji?

TanakaThat's right. There was nothing else I wanted to do, and I just loved skateboarding, so when I found out that I could work at what I loved, I knew this was the only way for me.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Do you feel pressure when you think you are going to work together?

TanakaRather, I have to make it my life's work. Because this is all I have.

plainHave you ever considered skateboarding-related jobs outside of distribution?

TanakaI wasn't the type of person who could handle a brand, and I wasn't an accomplished professional skater like Soichiro. So I guess being a backstage agency was just right for me in the end.

plainIn Kenji's opinion, what do you think is the best part of the distribution business?

TanakaI often work with skaters from overseas, and they are really messed up. They would suddenly come to my house to stay over without notice, but even these unprecedented skaters are able to make a decent living.

That is only in the world of skateboarding, isn't it? I think the most enjoyable thing is to be able to put myself in such an environment.

plainI guess that means meeting people. But isn't it hard to do business with those messed up people?

TanakaIt is hard work. But I enjoy it more than that. Maybe it's because I don't consider my interactions and communication with them as business. It is more like helping each other than doing business.
So in my case, I am not running my own business, but living off the help of the skaters around me. That is really not a pretty sight.

What I realized in my current job is that I am able to experience things that I would normally pay money to experience, and I am happy just to receive value that money can never buy. In a world like this, ruled by money, I am grateful that I am allowed to live only on something like friendship.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)That's partly because Kenji is able to love those who are messed up. Kenji is as deviant from society as they are (laughs).

plainDeviation (laughter).

TanakaYou have deviated, really. They are not rebelling against society, but have naturally left it on their own. That's why they are now self-sufficient. But this way of life is also something that American skaters have taught me.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)If that's Kenji's stance, I have a feeling it will continue for a long time to come. Even if he is replaced. Soichiro's skate company has been going on for a long time as well, and this year was its 10th year, right?

island in a pond or riverThat's right. It was like 10 years had passed when I came to my senses.

plainSpeaking of which, what exactly is Soichiro's daily work like?

island in a pond or riverThat's all of it (laughs). I also update the website, make sales calls, and talk about overseas production.

plainYou even take care of the team and manage it. For example, do you also decide who will be the rider?

island in a pond or riverWell, there is no one else to do it (laughs).

kozawa (Clausena lansium)When selecting a rider, you still have preferences, don't you?

island in a pond or riverYes, I do. I am the opposite of Kenji; I tend to avoid the maverick ones (laughs). I feel more comfortable with those who have common sense.

plainHow many are there now?

island in a pond or riverI think there are about nine of us now. Pros and amateurs combined.

plainDo you pay professionals?

island in a pond or riverYou pay professionals. And support for skate decks and such.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)That's great. But I'm sure that's partly because that's what Soichiro did for me when I was a player.

island in a pond or riverYes, I agree. When I was a rider, I gave a lot of orders to the manufacturers, so it would be lame for me not to do it myself.

plainNo, it's great. By the way, how do you decide who the rider is now?

island in a pond or riverWell, many skaters became friends through skating together.

plainAre you still selling a lot of sponsor me videos and such?

island in a pond or riverIt's not always the case, but it might be that I was introduced by someone at a store I do business with. Then there are also times when I receive a video clip on SNS that is not very good (laughs).

plainI knew it was social networking now.

island in a pond or riverAnd because it's a social networking service, we get messages from all over the world. But none of them are very good (laughs).

plainThat would be interesting to put together (laughs).

kozawa (Clausena lansium)And you've been releasing videos regularly, so I think you're at a mature stage as a skateboard brand, what do you want to do in the future?

island in a pond or riverI don't know about all that. I have the feeling that I want to keep on doing what I do, but times are changing, and I am not sure if I will be able to do the same thing as I am now when I get older. I don't know if I will still be making skateboard decks when I am 60 years old.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Or, if you are Soichiro, you could take the American approach and sell the company.

island in a pond or riverThat might be interesting. But will it really sell? (Laughs).

kozawa (Clausena lansium)I had never imagined that Soichiro would set up his own company and start doing business. When we went to the U.S. together in the past, my impression of him was that he was just going through the motions of his youth.

TanakaI think that was important. It was a spur-of-the-moment decision to just get started.

island in a pond or riverThat may be true. If I think too much about it, I will stall, and I don't think I will do the skateboarding business in Japan. It is too risky.

TanakaIf you look at it in terms of work, there are many better jobs out there (laughs).

kozawa (Clausena lansium)I wonder what the second careers are like for professional skaters in the US.

TanakaThere are many people like me and Soichiro who are working in companies or jobs related to skateboarding, and there are also many people who are doing something completely different. But nowadays, besides agencies and skate companies, there is another option to create a skatepark.

plainThat's right. It's a job title called park builder.

TanakaTo be clear, if you can build a skate park, you can build anything. It's called exterior (exterior) work, like building a garden or a wall of a house, but it's versatile.

plainThere are a lot of them in Japan, aren't there?

TanakaYes, there is a group of our friends called "MBM PARK BUILDERS "*18 and they are building skate parks like crazy in Japan.

island in a pond or riverIn Japan, such re-employment options are increasing, and it seems that everyone is somehow involved in skateboarding, but as Kenji said, it is more severe in the U.S.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)First of all, the population that skateboards is different.

TanakaBut what is interesting is that even if a prominent American former professional skater, who has been on the cover of magazines, changes jobs to something completely different from skateboarding, there are many employees who used to skateboard at the company and they are given preferential treatment. It's what we call props.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)It is similar to the story of a former professional baseball player in Japan who, after he retired, did very well in insurance sales.

plainI hope Japan will do the same.

island in a pond or riverI have certainly had such experiences on several occasions.

TanakaEven if you can no longer earn money as a skater, as long as you belong to the skater community, you can receive some kind of support. That is the mindset of skaters, helping each other.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)While I hope that such a community will be established in Japan, I also expect that the two of you will lead the way. In fact, "KUKUNOCHI "*19 and "Evisen Skateboards" have emerged as followers.

TanakaIt's important for skaters to do business with each other. While making the most of the friends around you. That is also something that has been common in the U.S. for a long time now as a sustainable way of working. We need to build a river without stagnation, not a village where one person wins. There are young people now who are circulating such money in a healthy way, and I really hope that's the kind of future we want.

island in a pond or riverEven in the U.S., there was a time not long ago when big companies controlled the scene, but now small companies have emerged and the scene has changed.

plainDo you two feel the influence of the Olympics or something like that in the skateboarding business? For example, there have been approaches from industries that have nothing to do with skateboarding.

island in a pond or riverI can feel the wind in my face. Personally, I am not against the Olympics.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Does that mean you are also thinking of having a skater who is aiming for the Olympics as a rider?

island in a pond or riverIf there is a chance. I don't think we should try to force our way into acquiring them. If we do that, it would give the impression that we are motivated by greed.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)The Kugenuma area, which is also Soichiro's hometown, seems to be very exciting, doesn't it?

island in a pond or riverIt's not so much the skaters, but their parents' generation that seems amazing. They are overly enthusiastic. What I am concerned about in the current skateboarding scene is that the street culture is still there, but the mainstream environment is like a so-called soccer school.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Yeah, yeah. Recently, I think that we just got into this culture at the beginning of the 90's when street skating was at its peak, and that the vertical*20 scene that existed before that was the original standard.

island in a pond or riverI see.

plainThat's because, as I see it, skateboarding in the 70s was considered to be skateboarding in skate parks, so the vertical style spread quickly, but in the 80s skate parks closed rapidly and the skateboarding movement went into decline. The streets were the catalyst for a resurgence from there.

We started skating in that generation, so it was natural for us to skate on the streets. At the same time, seeing Mark Gonzalez and Tommy Guerrero, two rare street skaters who became pros for the first time and rose to prominence, I was attracted to them even as a kid. I was attracted to them as a child, and I thought that skaters who skated freely on the streets with their originality were definitely cooler than those who skated in a visual style with full helmets and protective gear.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)That's how it doesn't seem to the kids today.

island in a pond or riverMaybe so.

plainSo it makes sense that the way we perceive the world is changing.

island in a pond or riverA long time ago, skaters who won contests and achieved results were labeled as lame. Skaters who competed on the streets were much more popular than those who skated on video. I used to watch skate videos and fast-forward to the vertical video.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)In our time, we documented the street scene through videos and magazines to preserve what was cool, but when skate parks became the mainstream, the locations became the same, so maybe the rankings are more valuable than the coolness.

island in a pond or riverIt's partly inevitable, though, when you look at the trends of the times outside of skateboarding.

plainDid we do too much street skating in our generation (laughs)?

island in a pond or riverI think that's part of it. I also liked street skating, so I was going for it, but on the other hand, I also had the feeling that, if I thought about it calmly, it would be out of the ordinary. I was also thinking, "This is just out of the ordinary, isn't it? I was violating the law, and yet I had my name and face in the magazine (laughs).

plainThat's right. But when we are doing it, we have our own arguments or logic, and say things like, "This is just an expression of skateboarding. Of course, that kind of argument doesn't make sense. But at that time, we had no choice but to do so.

TanakaIt can't be helped. Skateboarding originally started when people broke into a swimming pool in someone's yard without permission, drained the water, and skateboarded. It's an unthinkable thing to do, but that's what skateboarders do.

island in a pond or riverI wonder why such things were not in the news or enforced by law in the US? We don't hear much about it, do we?

plainI don't know, but I think Americans like people who do crazy things, and they are also culturally inclined to be accepting and generous, right?

TanakaMm-hm. On the other hand, there are some people who are extremely angry.

island in a pond or riverAfter all, when it comes to attractive skaters, it's the skaters who do those kinds of crazy things.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Maybe the value of skaters themselves is changing.

island in a pond or riverI think so. In the past, there were clothes that you definitely wanted because it was a signature model of this skater or because that skater was wearing it, so you looked cool.

TanakaI feel that the identity of skaters is fading.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Kenji, as a distributor, is involved in the distribution of skate decks, and I'm sure you can understand such trends.

TanakaWell, the brands my company handles are too specific to be of any use (laughs). However, I can say that the value of mass-oriented brands and promotions will inevitably decrease in relative terms, but brands and riders who are active in the independent field can have a great influence on their fans as long as their style is cool.

plainThen I wonder what kind of skate decks all the young kids are buying now?

TanakaThere is one thing called a plain blank deck.

island in a pond or riverAnd then there are the graphics. I think that the criteria for choosing skateboards are changing. There are many skate decks made by other skate brands in the world.

plainLike those fake skateboards they used to sell at the toy store?

island in a pond or riverThat's one thing, and "Amazon" and others sell cheap complete sets for less than 5,000 yen. That's right, the value will go down and they won't be able to sell.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)From a different perspective, more and more people think that skateboarding is a good way to make money. But while this is a positive thing in the sense that the market is getting bigger, I think there are going to be a lot of problems in the future.

TanakaIn the end, I think the forces that entered the market from fields other than skateboarding will withdraw again because they are not cost-effective. It's a repetition of the same thing. The only asset is that the population of skaters is constantly increasing.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)Also, with this Olympic movement, it's great to have a full-fledged skate park as a legacy.

TanakaYes, I agree. But no matter how rich the environment becomes, I don't want it to take away the free spirit of skateboarders.

kozawa (Clausena lansium)We are in the midst of a period of transition. We don't even have Olympic experience. But the way to connect to the future is to cultivate a broad mindset that allows us to aim for a richer environment without losing sight of the essence of skateboarding. I feel that the people who remain in the industry today are all like that.

TanakaYes, I know. But it's okay, I'm sure. People who can make a business out of skateboarding are all fascinated by skateboarding the way it should be, and they are all a little bit crazy. As long as those people remain, I don't think the cultural value will be lost.

plainYes, I think so. I think we are somewhat organized. So let's wrap it up for this time. Thank you very much. Next time, we will send you the theme of "Skateboarding and Photography," and we will bring it to you once again in the form of podcast audio and archived articles. Please look forward to it.