【TBSJ】Hitorecipe.Recipe 2 Hirofumi Kiyonaga A story about Oita's specialty, Toriten (chicken tempura) and soccer. | feature

How did you develop the ability to read the times?

Mr. Seinaga, you collaborated with "g.u." on the theme of "one-mile wear" right after the Corona disaster.

Seinaga:Yes, did you know that the corona disaster was going to happen? I was even told (laughs).

You seem to be ahead of the times with your remote work and dual-location lifestyle.

Seinaga:I wonder...hmmm...I'm still interested in current world trends, and I go to study. Maybe I am curious. Last year, I went to study crypto assets and NFT, and I thought, "This is what the next era is going to be like, so I should know about it, even if it's a little early. It's a small thing, but when I was at Sohu, for example, I tried social networking services, which are now commonplace, on my own first. I first experienced it for myself, and then I tried it at the company. I don't do anything I can't lead. Perhaps it is a habit of mine to do things first.

Toba:Honeycomb" was also very quick, wasn't it?

Seinaga:I believe that the strongest thing to do is to be driven by necessity, and "honeycomb" is no different. I did it out of necessity, because when I turned on my computer in the morning, there was no site to look at.

Toba:And I think it's because you find the space. I think it's the multiplication of the space you find, combined with the value of the experience and foresight.

Seinaga:If I happen to meet someone, I'm the type of person who thinks there must be something there. If I am approached for advice, I will do it immediately without thinking about it for a month. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I had a bird's eye view, but my perspective had become narrower in Tokyo, but when I went to Fukuoka, my perspective expanded.

Toba:It's a view from the sideback (laughs).

Seinaga:I wondered if that is where the mindset was reset.

Toba:In our case, we reset it by traveling.

Seinaga:The same is true of travel. As one gets older, one's career and status increases, and one leaves the streets, or in other words, the real world. The good thing about going to Fukuoka was that I had a "new student" who, at age 50, after a long time, came to me as a "new student" and said, "This is what it's like. I was able to reset myself. That helped me to reset my life. Moving to Hayama was one of them.

Toba:Kiyo-san is soft-spoken, and it's hard to convey because he is such a character, but he is a person who takes on new challenges.

Seinaga:Plus, there is space and humor. Humor is about whether something is funny or not.

Toba:It's also a bird's eye view. It's like another person is looking at Kiyo-san. He has a keen sense of the bird's eye view, and I think that is why his nose is so effective. What Kiyo-san is talking about tends to appear to be in the first person, but in fact, he is often talking in a non-first-person relationship.

Seinaga:Multiple personalities (laughs).

Toba:However, a person who has interviewed many geniuses wrote that geniuses have a bird's eye view of themselves. Ayrton Senna could see himself running on the track, and Hide Nakata also had a bird's eye view of himself.

Seinaga:This may not be an answer to the question of how I perceive the times, but I could have continued to do this for 5 or 10 years, but the most important thing was that it was not interesting. It would not stimulate the people around me if I continued. This time, I thought it would be interesting to have someone like him. I had done a lot of research. I did a lot of research, and while there are examples of overseas brands such as (Martin) Margiela and Helmut Lang, there is no precedent for this kind of retirement in Japan.

Toba:If I were a chef all the time, I would get bored and my season would end quickly. Even in the restaurant industry, it is difficult unless you shift a little bit from one category to another, and gradually climb up the ladder, becoming a chef and then an owner. I do this systematically so that I don't compete or butt heads with anyone. I don't want to compete with people in the same genre and end up hurting each other.

Seinaga:So yes. So you just have to take the abilities you have to another place.

Toba:I do what I do knowing my own expiration date and how to sell. I finished saying "I am Shusaku Toba, and I make good food" two years ago. Otherwise, I think it's not good. When I said I was going to stop standing in the kitchen, I received a lot of complaints and suffered, but I was firm in my belief that I had to do so. But at the time, people still didn't understand. It was quite difficult for me to decide whether or not I could step aside when I knew that if I remained a player, I would be safe for the next five years. But if I did not step down, I would not be able to nurture my successor. Mr. Kiyonaga, you were also creative in the way you stepped down.

That's right. There is no precedent for this. Finally, in the spirit of the soccer connection, let's end this interview by asking Mr. Toba who he would compare to a soccer player.

Seinaga:I thought about it, but there aren't any.... If I had to say, I would say Dervitz, because he seems to be knocking around at the moment, and because he originally played the volante position. No, I think it's Seedorf, the winner. Which do you like better, Toba-kun?

Toba:Seedorf.

Seinaga:Okay, I'll go with Seedorf (laughs).