FEATURE｜ Two rising dragons, doublet and WISM, aiming to be the "Best in the World".
Doublet and WISM, two rising dragons aiming for "Best in the World".
In these days when there is little bright news in the fashion industry, the brand "doublet" and the select store "WISM" are expanding their support at a breakneck pace. The two brands have teamed up to open a large-scale pop-up store this summer. Their efforts seem to stand out from the stagnant scene. Where does this good vibe come from? In this first media interview between Masayuki Ino, designer of "Doublet" and Ryu Horike, director of "Wism," their bare words reveal the passion and love they have for fashion. This special talk session was packaged as it was, capturing the passionate atmosphere of the event. Despite the general down mood in the fashion world in these days, doublet, which is one of the hottest and trendy fashion brands, and the select shop called Their project has a feel of break through. Where does the inspiration come from? doublet designer Masayuki Ino and WISM director Ryu Horike are in conversation. This is a spacial talk with their real voices.
I suppose it is customary to start by asking about how the two of you met, but since this special-order T-shirt is so problematic (laugh), may I start by asking you about it? Although I should start from how you guys met, I'd rather want to ask you about your latest pre-order made T-shirt because it's such a controversial design. Could you tell me more about it?
moatThe idea came to me on the plane on the way back from the 17-18AW buying season. . I can't sleep at all on airplanes, so I was watching something on the plane. I can't sleep at all on airplanes, so I was thinking about what to watch on the plane, and I saw that the drama series "Long Vacation (Lombake)" was playing all the episodes. I had watched it in real time, but when I watched it again, the styling in the drama seemed very fresh to me. Also,Previous special order T-shirtswas easy to understand and well received, and when I was looking for a T-shirt material for this year's edition, this one jumped out at me . Horike:I had this idea when I was on my flight back from the 17-18AW show. I couldn't fall asleep on the plane as usual and wanted to watch some TV drama. Then I came across a whole episode of "Long Vacation" (Japanese TV program from 1996). I had watched it in its time, but watching it again, the styling in the drama was so fresh and came into my eyes with a strong inspiration. previous pre-order made T-shirts , so I was looking for something for the next one, and I though this is it.
¥9,000+TAX (SIZE: S-XXL)
Sena-kun (Takuya Kimura) is wearing it in the opening of the drama . Sena (he main male character acted by Takuya Kimura in the TV drama) wears a T-shirt in the opening of the drama, isn't he?
well fieldSena-kun is wearing a charity T-shirt for all that drama . InoIn the drama, all of the T-shirts he wears are for charity.
Tidbits of information (laughs). That's a nice detail. (laughter)
moatOf these, I chose the most obvious stories. HorikeI chose the design which is most easy to understand.
well fieldI heard about it at a bar shortly after Mr. Horike returned to Japan. He said, "I found a good T-shirt story!" He said. Ino: Horike said to me that 'I found a good T-shirt!' in a pub straight after he came back from the trip.
moatWhen I told him, he said, "I'll do it! . Last time, I came up with an idea, and then Mr. Ino put his idea on top of it, and the process went rather smoothly. Last time, I came up with an idea and Mr. Ino's idea was added to it, and the process went rather smoothly, but this time..., HorikeSoon after I explained to him the idea, He said 'I'm in! It happened quite spontaneously.
Feeling a little overwhelmed? Was it difficult to finalise?
moatYes, that's right. The original story was complete, so we talked a lot about what to do with it. HorikeYes, it was. Because the original design was already completed, so we discussed quite a lot how to develop the idea.
Indeed. Indeed.
moatSince the original was good, I thought it would be better to keep the basic idea and call the letters "doublet". However, I think it was very difficult for Mr. Ino to start from there. HorikeThe original is brilliant already, so I was thinking to keep everything as it is and change the logo to "doublet". I bet Ino had a hard time afterwards.
well fieldWe had a crazy variety of ideas. . we went away from the map once and came back to it again . It had to be obvious at a glance , but not too obvious. InoIt had to be easy to understand, but not too much.
That's the moderation, isn't it? It's about balance, isn't it?
well field. Yes, that's right. . and finally settled on the 23 wards of Tokyo. InoYes, it is. Finally we decided to use the word "Tokyo 23wards".
moatI was pretty much done with it, and before I had 23 wards, I had "Tokyo Metropolis. It was too thin as it was, so I made it a little fatter. But that made it look fake. Then, Mr. Ino said, "I found a good idea! And that was the 23 wards. That was the 23 wards. HorikeBefore "Tokyo 23wards", we had "Tokyo-To" and changed the width but then it looked fake. Finally Ino came to me with a good idea, which was "Tokyo 23wards".
Not only on the front, but also on the back, there are letters printed with a twist, aren't there? There are distorted words printed not only on the front, but also on the back.
moatI was satisfied with just the front, but the back seems to be a work of great confidence from Mr. Ino's point of view. Horike: I was satisfied without print on the back but Ino was determined to have the back print.
well field. Yes, that's right. Mr. Horike, he wasn't interested in the back at all (laughs). Ino：Exactly, Mr. Horike wasn't interested in the back design at all in the beginning.(laughter)
moatYes, yes. I was thinking, "I don't really care about the backing," but when the sample actually came out, it was quite effective. Horike：Yeah, I wasn't keen on the back print but when I saw the sample, It was pretty cool.
well field. "THIS T-SHIRT SHORT SLEEVES". I'm just saying that this T-Shirt is short sleeves , (laughs). Ino(laughter): "THIS T-SHIRT SHORT SLEEVES" it's just saying what it is in English. (laughter)
Did such a sense of humor or parody exist in you originally, Mr. Ino? Do you always have this kind of humor that is playing with parody?
well fieldYes . I have been doing this for quite a while. I embroidered the word "embroidery," and I made sweatshirt-like knitwear and put "This sweatshirt is knitwear" on it. I feel that a logo is nothing more than a kind of signature. So, rather than the words of the message itself, I hope the message is conveyed by the reason why it was created. InoI have been designing with this kind of joke, such as stitching the word of "embroidery" or I knitted a wooly jumper that looks like jersey and put the logo saying " this jersey is made of wool". I think a logo is just some sort of a sign. I think a logo is just some sort of a sign. I use them as messages about why I made this, rather than using it as a logo.
I think Horie and I have the same sensibilities. I can tell that we enjoy each other's work. I can see that you share a lot of aesthetics with Horike. That is why you can make an interesting collaboration.
moatThey can respond to what I throw with a straight pitch, or they can respond with a change of pace. That's what makes it interesting. So, regardless of whether or not he is going to do it in "Doublet" or not, he might be the first person to ask, "I'm thinking of something like this right now, what do you think? I think that you might be the first person who comes up with an idea. HorikeWhen I throw a direct ball, he can return it directly but also with a weird spin. That is very exciting to me. Ino always tells me what his new ideas are, it 's not necessarily about doublet.
well fieldHorike's pitches, even though I hold my mitt up every time, don't come down the middle. Wow, here it is! I think, "Wow, here it is! . But I get excited, thinking that next time I might get it. InoEven if I prepared myself, I never get what I am expecting. This excites me, to think how the next ball would be thrown.
moatBy the way, this T-shirt is available in sizes from S to XXL, so I would like women to wear it as well. In fact, women around me are already saying, "I want one! I want it! HorikeBy the way, this T-shirt has full sizes from S to XXL. I would like ladies to wear them too. In fact, my female friends already told me that they want them.
Indeed . It's a little big and might be cute if women wore it. I agree, it might be cute to be worn by ladies as baggy style.
By the way, you two seem to be allies now, but how long have you known each other? You guys seem like best mates at the moment.
moatWism" started to carry them in the 2014 SS season. HorikeI started to deal with their clothes at WISM since 2014SS season.
What did you find interesting at the time, and what did you buy? When you decided to work with doublet, why were you interested in his style?
moat. The first time I saw them was at a joint exhibition the season before. I saw "ITTY-BITTY" next to it, and I was interested in both of them. But I ordered "ITTY-BITTY" at that time. HorikeWhen I saw his work for the first time it was at an open exhibition in the previous season. There were ITTY-BITTY next to him and I liked both of them. In the end, I ordered ITTY-BITTY.
Where is the division in that decision? How did you decide?
moatI don't know if this is the right way to put it, but I felt that I was from a certain brand more than I am now. (Note: Mr. Ino, the designer of "Dovelet" came from "MIHARAYASUHIRO. ) So, I thought his taste might be a little different from our store and decided not to carry his work, but I was very interested in Mr. Ino's personal side. So we started talking a little, and he brought me a look for the next season. When I looked at them, I got the impression that he was trying to break away from the look I had mentioned earlier. That's why we started carrying it. HorikeI am not sure if it's the correct way of saying this, but at the time, I felt he was still very influenced from his previous job (Ino used to work as a designer of MIHARAYASUHIRO). So I though his style might not match with WISM. In the next season, he brought his look to me and I though he has moved on, so I decided to work with I decided to work with doublet.
You say this, Mr. Horike, but are you aware that you have changed your manufacturing process from the start of your brand to now? Horike thinks so, but how about you, Ino? Did you have an intention to change your style, since you started your brand?
well fieldYes . Things have changed quite a bit. Especially since "Wism" started handling them, a lot has happened. I have some memories about that (laughs). InoEspecially since I work with WISM. I have quite a few memories on my mind.
As long as you can talk, please (laughs). Can you tell me as much as you can?
well fieldFor me, it was a great pleasure to have it handled by "Wism". That is why I wanted it to sell. I wanted the album to sell well, and I wanted it to sell well. I was thinking, "Thank you for putting it there. Mr. Horie gave me a hard slap for thinking that way (laughs). InoIt was my dream to have my work at WISM, therefore I wanted to sell my clothes so much to show Horike how much I care. (laughter)
Genco (laughs). Is it a bar, is it? At a bar?
moat. Yes. Mr. Oshima (director of Itty Bitty) was next to me, but he said it didn't matter (laughs). HorikeYes. There was a director of ITTY-BITTY but I didn't care.
well fieldI still remember that one well. Ino: I remember that very well.
moat. It doesn't matter if we don't do business at home anymore. We can go out for a drink together . So we'll be fine! I remember that we talked like that. We weren't the only store that was waiting for Doubleday and had fans. So, I told him that he should not worry about our store more than necessary, but that there are many things he should be more concerned about. HorikeI remember I said to him 'Don't worry so much, even if we stop working together, we can still go for a drink. I wanted to tell him that there are many shops or people who like doublet rather than WISM. I wanted to tell him that there are many shops or people who like doublet rather than WISM.
Was it a transitional period? Overwhelming period?
well fieldIn the end, it was a matter of how I felt. Ino：After all, the problem was how I think about my position.
moatI still say this, but I still think it is equal. It is not that the buyer is superior, or the seller is superior, or anything like that. If I decide to do something, it is my responsibility. Do it, whether the product is good or bad, whether the brand is well-known or not, and so on. It's not like that. HorikeI still say this, but we are even. no buyer is more important than a maker. since I decide to buy it, it is my responsibility.
Yes. I see.
moatIn contrast, I think that designers need to be aware of what is missing and work on it, rather than saying, "I'm just trying my best," in order to advance to the next stage. And since Mr. Ino was "working hard," I said to him, "That's enough! (laughs). HorikeIn this field, designers should be aware of what is not good enough for them, and what is needed for development, rather than showing how hard they are working. And Ino was always showing me how hard he worked at the time, so that's what irritated me. 1TP 13Tlaughter)
well fieldThat was good. InoIt helped me.
Did you blow it? A break through moment?
well field. There was a part of me that was relying on "wism. I thought that if I could raise the brand's visibility even a little through the power of "wism," I was spoiled. I was spoiled. But after I was hit hard, I began to think about what I should do first. InoI was somehow relying on WISM. I was hoping that people will get to know doublet better because of WISM. However, since Horike told me off, I changed my mind and I am thinking more about how I can develop my ideas.
I still remember the exhibition during the 2016 AW . I felt like I had a complete spark here. So.This newsI was asked to write a I still remember from the 2016 AW exhibition, I could see you totally got it. That's why I wrote about you in the article.
moatIt was the time of the Mod Coat, wasn't it? That season was really good. Horike: When you presented your Mods coat. It was a very good one.
well fieldThis is exactly the collection I created after being gutted by Mr. Horie. . At that time, I really only did what I liked. Ino：Soon after I was criticized by Horike, I started focusing exclusively on what I like.
moatWhen I saw this collection, I thought, "Oh, I'm doing what I love. From about that point on, I started buying like an idiot. Horike：When I saw the new collection, I thought, now he is doing what he likes and I started buying many of his works.
Does that mean buying in a store? You mean buying for the shop?
moat. either at the store or by yourself. Horike: For my shop and for myself, too.
Did you get a better response on "Wism"? Did you get a good response from customers as well?
moatYes, it did. There had been signs before that, but rather than a gradual steady rise, it was a scorching rise. Horike：Yes, it was always okay, but since the new collection their stuff was very popular.
. It was a turning point in the season. Also, the look was very good. It was extremely special and represented a turning point.
moatYou know, the one you took walking on the Inokashira Line train. HorikeThey did the photoshoot on the Lancashire line (local train in Tokyo).
well fieldThis season was very memorable for me, because I felt that I was responsible for the 100%, no matter how good or bad the results were. Ino：I remember this season went very well, because I realized so many ideas and was happy to take responsibility, no matter what the result was.
moatIt was a really good season. . I made a mistake in the alphabet (laughs). (Laughs.) "DRY CLEAN" was changed to "DRY CLAEN. At first I said I would fix it, but then I thought, "Why not just leave it as it is? I said, "No, let's just leave it the way it is. Then, in the end, they didn't change it (laughs). HorikeIt was a brilliant season, although there were spelling mistakes in the print. "DRY CLEAN" was spelled "DRY CLAEN" and Ino was saying to correct it, but I thought it could be okay without amending and in the end he didn't.(laughter )laughter
well fieldI thought, "That's a new opinion, I didn't know there was such a thing. I spent the whole night thinking about whether or not to fix it, but the feelings and passion I was feeling at the time were not false, so I decided that it didn't matter anymore whether the words were wrong or not. InoIt was new to me. (laughter). I couldn't decide the whole night whether I should change it or not but there was no mistake in my passion when I designed it. So, in the end I decided to leave it.
moatI wore that coat on a business trip at the beginning of the year, and everyone kept saying, "NICE! What's that?" . . and "NICE! And I spelled it wrong (laughs). Horike: I wore the coat in my new year business trip and everyone said "Nice! But what is it saying? "(laughter)
well fieldYou told me about the spelling , (laughter). InoI didn't know people noticed about the misspelling.
moatI have received a lot of comments from foreigners. But it's not just that they are wrong, it's that they are a thing, so I can wear them with confidence. HorikeA lot of foreigners noticed, but I was comfortable wearing it, because it looks great as a design.
That coat, you wore it every day in Paris, come to think of it. I remember you wore the coat every day in Paris.
moatYes . Seriously, I wore it every day. Horike：Yes, I actually wore it every day.
I think that the relationship with foreign countries has changed over the past few years for "Doubleday," but can you tell us again how that has been going? As doublet, I presume you would like to expand the business to abroad, could you tell me more about it?
well fieldAfter all, it was "collete" that was the biggest trigger for me. I had made a skateboarding bag before the season (16-17AW) that you mentioned earlier that I had made a breakthrough. Collete" liked it very much. Then, during the 16-17AW exhibition, Sarah (the buyer of "Colette") was going to come to Japan. I thought, "We have to do whatever it takes to get her to come. I had her take a look, and that's how we started doing business. After that, I had her put it on the window display at Colette. InoOne season before 16-17AW we mentioned earlier, I was making a bag for a skate board and Collete like it. Sarah, who works for Collete, was going to come to the 16-17AW show, so I really wanted to meet her and finally managed to show her my products . And that's how we started to work together. They use the bag for their window display.
. it was decorated just in time for Fashion Week. This was during the fashion week as well, wasn't it?
well field. This led to various stores gradually approaching me. Ino：From that period, I started to deal with more shops.
From there, the brand started exhibiting in Paris, and even more later, had a show in Japan, didn't it? Since then you had a show in Paris and Japan and you are getting busy.
well fieldYes, that's right. I started exhibiting in Paris because I had one frustrating experience. When I had a display at Colette, I was still in Japan working on the next season's designs. They are trying to do it over there, but I am not in Paris at that time? I thought, "This is not good. I thought, "This is not good. InoYes, there was one particular reason why I had a show in Paris first. When Collete displayed my work, I was preparing for the next season, which would happen in Japan. In fact, Collete was expecting that I will have a show in Paris for the next season. I thought it would be a shame to miss out the whole attention and expectation in Paris.
Overseas, the timing of exhibitions is much earlier, isn't it? Abroad, the timing of the seasons is so much earlier than in Japan,isn't it.
well field. Yes, that's right. Also, there are many countries overseas, but they all come to Paris to buy. I thought it would be different to say, "If you want to see 'Doublet', you should come to Japan. If everyone is going to gather there, then that's where they should go. InoAfter all everyone is keen to come to Paris to see fashion shows. I though it make more sense to show there rather than ask people to come to Japan.
Looking back on the show in Japan, how did you feel about it? Looking back, how did you like the show in Japan?
well fieldThe show was an experiment , a challenge. . and I knew I wanted to do a show. . I wanted to make it different from the lookbook atmosphere. InoAlso I purely wanted to have a show. I wanted to express myself differently compared to Lookbook.
How did you perceive the show, Mr. Horike? How did you like the show, Mr. Horike?
moatWell, 、、、、 I've already forgotten about it (laughs). HorikeOh... I don't remember well.(laughter)
It was a while ago, to be sure (laughs). It was a while ago. (laughter)
moatWell, I don't really want to put it this way, but tears were flowing. Not because it was good or bad, but because I could see all the hard work that went into making it. This has nothing to do with the show at all, but I was moved when I saw the brand's beginning, what we talked about, what we drank, and all those things came together and took shape, and when I saw how happy everyone was, I was really moved. I was already moved even before the show started. I thought, "What if I knew someone nearby? HorikeNot because it was good or bad. I could feel that the process of making wasn't easy. Although this is nothing to do with the show itself, just remembering how the brand started, what we talked, drinking together and all those things are become like one shape now. When I saw everyone was so happy, I was so touched already before the show started. I was worried if any friends saw me crying.1 TP13Tlaughter)
So you were concerned about that (laughs). That's what you worried. (laughter)
moat. it was good anyway. I think it stuck in everyone's mind, but it stuck in mine exactly as well. HorikeIt touched everyone's heart including my own.
well fieldI am sure there were pros and cons. . But I think the brand is what it is today because of everyone's thoughts. The people who write articles, the people who introduce our brand to customers in stores, and so on, are the accumulation of all these things. The people who come to the shows are all people who have seen the collections at the exhibitions beforehand, and we wanted to create entertainment that they could still enjoy. InoBut doublet is here now because of everyone's passion including writers and whoever supports it, that's what it's all about. The show is usually booked by people who already have seen the collection in the exhibition. Therefore, I wanted to make it fun for those people who already have seen it.
moatIt was nice to know that the people whose faces I could see in the end were happy. It was a form of gratitude. I could see that they wanted to give something back to those people. It was a great show. As I was talking about it, I started to remember it (laughs). HorikeIt was nice, because we could see people actually enjoyed it. It was some kind of reward for everyone. It was a great show. I started to remember now. 1TP13 Tlaughter)
Finally (laughs). (laughter)
moatYes . At first, I was wearing it the other way around (laughs). Horike: Yes, earlier I was only remembering that models were wearing clothes the other way around.(laughter)
well fieldHorike, you also wrote on your instagram, "You wear it the other way around. Ino: Horike wrote in instagram "Wearing the other way around."
A post shared by Ryu Horike WISM, (@ryu_horike) -.
moatOh yeah . It was very good! I thought, "I'm going to wear it backwards and forwards" (or something like that)! (laughs). Horike：Yes, I was impressed by the fact that the models were wearing the clothes the other way around more than anything else.(laughter)
